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HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsiFly Pictures &...iFly Pictures &...Why We Need ADS-BWhy We Need ADS-B
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8/15/2017 2:22 PM
 
Sorry, I said there is no mode C veil. That was dumb. There is a mode C veil, but as far as I can tell, the only ones that required ADS-B are those around Class B airports listed in the appendix to the FAR. I posted it farther down in this thread.
 
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8/15/2017 2:33 PM
 

Greetings Tim,

Thanks for your civil response about the comment on adsb.

Privacy...your right as a citizen. Some care about it more than others...

I realize that and accept some folks do not care who knows what they are doing at all times. But who else has access to this data? I am not a kook or a conspiracy theorist, but there are already enough commercial enterprises seeking my data from credit card use, login history, phone calls, etc. trying to sell me stuff and bug me.  I have no criminal record or any other reason for anyone to know where and when I fly. I prefer to keep it that way if possible - it is my preference and my right.

I have nothing to hide from anyone, but on the other hand, who really needs to know where I am flying...and why? I have heard no valid and compelling reason why this data will be collected or used. I can see WHY folks get irritated when the idea is floated that in the future, adsb data will be used to "mail you the user fee" - but that is another debate for another thread...

Right now, when I dial in 1200 alt ATC has enough info to keep IFR traffic away from me without knowing my tail number or who I am....

In the future, when there will be thousands of remotely piloted vehicles in our airspace, so the push now for adsb is logical from that standpoint - they will not have pilots to call when they "get away" (and they do!) so some kind of rf tag is necessary...

I am really glad to see some adsb boxes coming out now with an option to "turn off" the N number when the pilot wishes to do so.  I am sure no one ever thought that would come to pass and I would not be surprised to see that feature "written out" in a ruling in the future.

Again, thanks for the healthy and insightful dialog.

Mike Marra, N94

 
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8/15/2017 2:35 PM
 
ATC does not keep IFR traffic away from you. They provide separation services for IFR vs IFR, not VFR. That's why you have VFR cloud clearance and visibility minimums. IFR traffic is also responsible for "see and avoid" when in VFR conditions. They will get advisories some of the time or most of the time, but not all of the time when in VFR.

Also, you should not infer that anyone who is not concerned about ADS-B privacy doesn't care about privacy. That's not correct. That's one reason it's almost impossible to have discussions because some people attribute things to you that you never said or implied. I'm done. This is fruitless and silly.

Flying airplanes and sharing airspace is not a right, it's a privilege you earn by getting a license and following the rules.
 
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8/15/2017 2:42 PM
 
Tim Taylor wrote:
There is no mode C veil. You simply need ADS-B to fly in, over, or under mode C. Maybe that's what you are calling mode C veil.

If I had my own airplane, I would simply get ADS-B out and quit bitching. It's part of the price of owning your own airplane. Otherwise, sell your plane and rent. I've done both over the past 50+ years.

ADS-B OUT is mandated, not ADS-B in. ADS-B out will not show you other aircraft, but it will help you see them if you opt for ADS-B in. You can build that for about $150. Of course, you need both to see all of the traffic (most, still not all).
 
Tim, with all due respect, there is most certainly a Mode C veil.
 
I fly in and out of Washington, DC airspace routinely (inside the SFRA and FRZ) and through the Mode C veil.  It does exist. It may not around where you are, but there are a major part of the complex airspace of the NE part of the USA.
 
I am not "bi#$^ing" as you put it - just trying to have a good conversation.
 
I do own my plane but have the greatest respect for renters as we all started out renting, most likely. Your advice to "go rent" does not change the airspace issues we are discussing, but ok, you have a right to suggest it.
Regards, Mike
 
Mode C veil refers to a kind of airspace which currently surrounds all primary Class B airports within the United States. This airspace extends horizontally to a circle of 30 NM radius centered on the airport, and extends vertically from the surface up to 10,000 feet MSL.[1] The name refers to the mode of transponder operation which is required within this airspace (i.e., with very limited exceptions, all aircraft operating within this airspace must have an altitude reporting Mode C transponder in operation). All 37 existing (as of August 2016) Class B airports in the United States,[2] have Mode C veil centered on them.[3] This was not the case for many years, whereas two Class B airports did not have it (at least de jure): Houston Hobby Airport[4] and Miramar Naval Air Station.[5][6]

 

 
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8/15/2017 2:44 PM
 

Again, I said there is no mode C veil. Dumb again. What I was trying to say is I don't believe ADS-B is required in a mode C veil around a Class C airspace. It is required in a mode C veil around certain Class B airspace as specified in the appendix I posted below.

 
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