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HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsADS-B Discussio...ADS-B Discussio... traffic puck size transmitted back from  Ground station traffic puck size transmitted back from Ground station
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3/21/2019 8:05 PM
 

Thanks Hook for that discussion, will take me a while to think through  those scenarios.  I'm not sure that any UAT (978 ) tfk will be received  directly  rather only those thru ground signal relay up. Now the ES or 1080 units are direct receive to my IN. I could be wrong.  If one had a Garmin xxx89  UAT out only and depended on a mini pad for stratus  UTA in, seems like he should be able to report on the GDL 89 that he had both out and in capability. 

 
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3/21/2019 9:46 PM
 

I need to correct myself: TIS-B is transmitted on both 978 and 1090 frequencies.  FIS-B (weather and other data) is only transmitted on 978.

This AOPA article (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/a...hanges-to-tis-b), in the 7th paragraph seems clear that you receive traffic directly from other aircraft (no matter which freq they're using) -- "Aircraft carrying ADS-B In equipment receive data directly from nearby aircraft with ADS-B Out on the appropriate frequency (1090 MHz or 978 MHz)."

But it, and this article from the FAA (https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/pilot/), do confound me in that they both imply that TIS-B only contains data on non-ADS-B-Out-equipped aircraft. (See the TIS-B diagram.) So does this article (https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/a...w-it-works-adsb).

But if true, and if your ADS-B In only receives on one of the two frequencies, then that would leave you blind to aircraft using the other frequency -- so that doesn't seem right.  Does every single ADS-B In have dual antennas?  If so, why is it you indicate on your setup parms for ADS-B Out which, if any, freq's you can receive on?  The same when filing a flight plan.  In both cases you can indicate that you only receive on one of the two frequencies. 

The problem with these articles is that they gloss over things.  For instance, that TIS-B diagram does not show any aircraft-to-aircraft communication.  Granted, it's focusing on TIS-B.

Again, if anyone on the forum can chime in here, please do so.

[Edit: Ahhh, Wikipedia to the rescue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automat...80%93_broadcast).  To quote: "In addition to receiving position reports from ADS-B out participants, TIS-B [USA-only] can provide position reports on non ADS-B out-equipped aircraft if suitable ground equipment and ground radar exist. ADS-R re-transmits ADS-B position reports between UAT and 1090 MHz frequency bands.". ADS-R, which may not be part of TIS-B per se, takes care of the case where an aircraft only receives on one freq.]


Powrachute PC 2000; Aventura II; Cherokee 180
 
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3/21/2019 10:14 PM
 

Just to put an even finer point on all this... Even if your aircraft is transmitting ADS-B Out (and you have ADS-B In), it doesn't mean you're getting a complete picture on your screen:

  • If you're too low, or too far away, you will not receive and/or you will not trigger a ground station's signal.  So, for sure you're not seeing non-ADS-B-Out aircraft.  (TIS-B)
  • In the same situation, if your ADS-B In only receives one of the two freq's then you will not receive info on aircraft that are transmitting on the other freq.  (ADS-R)
  • If some of the non-ADS-B-Out traffic is too low, or too far away from a radar source, it will not generate a radar hit and you will not get info on it.
  • If a non-ADS-B-Out aircraft is too "insubstantial" (e.g. an ultralight, or very light LSA) to generate a radar hit you will not get info on it.
  • If a non-ADS-B-Out aircraft does not have a transponder on it, you will not get "good" data on it.  Range may or may not be accurate, and altitude will definitely lack accuracy or be missing (no Mode C altitude reporting).

These are not high likelihood scenarios, but they happen.  And being far from a ground station or being low is not out of the question.  Or flying near an airport, like mine, with a lot of "very light" type aircraft traffic.  Regardless, as you allude to, a pilot should still be using the Mk 1 Eyeball instrument.


Powrachute PC 2000; Aventura II; Cherokee 180
 
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3/21/2019 11:02 PM
 

Absolutely.  ADS-B is far from perfect.  Keep all your eyes out.  Also, if flying VFR, always maintain specified visability limits and cloud clearances.   If IFR, be on the lookout for VFR traffic because ATC does not guarantee separation from VFR traffic, except maybe in Class B airspace.

 
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3/22/2019 11:06 AM
 

Agree and still working to understand, it all, BUT even at this level  recognizing some of the holes and coverage flaws,  this system is way ahead of any services provided before. I like it.  Ifly and stratux have provided me a  excellent instrument  for being  able to afford this tech . Thanks guys. 

 
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